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  #1  
Old 08-09-2005, 05:38 PM
Rainingatsunset Rainingatsunset is offline
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New to the forum...

Hello Message Boarders,
Forgive me my elusiveness, for it merits no excuse, as I have been a Nickel Creek fan for some time now, and have been browsing this very forum for a while...I suppose the new release has inspired me to emerge from the online social status that is anonymity and break out into the world of Nickel Creek MB'ers. So here I am.title=Smilie

I thought I would post a rather lengthy interpretation of "When In Rome" that is currently posted on my MySpace journal. Please enlighten me as to what you all think of my analysis.

Here it is:

"When In Rome" written by Chris Thile has engulfed and stimulated my musical palatte for a while now. The lyrics themselves offer minimal cryptic understanding, if none at all. That's what I love about Chris' writing. However, to the best of my ability, I will attempt to dicipher what I believe Thile is trying to get across. At the same time, (bare with me) I will point out the musical endeavors that the band (Nickel Creek) has taken on throughout the presentation of this song.



As Nickel Creek often does, they begin the tune rather quirkily; with the muffled sound of a mandolin being tuned, as though it is on the radio. Then, the melody plays for the first time. As a listener, it seems catchy enough, a light mando lick with a Celtic/Middle Eastern/New Age sort of feel. Then the music cuts for a quick second and in comes the full band with the melody roaring. The low-end/bass of the song is incredible. A catchy and full beat is built by the sounds of string bass and additional objects banging in the background. The trio is able to blend their sounds together and sound invariably "big" (for lack of a better term). The three of them convey a sound that seems to command attention and attempt to describe the importance of the words to come through music.

The first verse comes: "Where can a sick man go? When he can't choke down the medicine the old doc knows? A Specialist he came to town, but he stays at home, saying no one knows, so I don't honey, When In Rome."

At this point, the listener is exposed to raw vocals by Thile, enhanced by a "far-off" effect. The instruments' volume is subdued and the vocals come in clearly. Now, lyrically, the words could mean a number of things. The words "when in Rome" is an allusion(in my opinion, of course) to the saying, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do," so...I think Thile is trying to portray the sense of conformity and/or supressment. The verse itself seems to insinuate that "sick men" or people poisoned by the conformist society of today cannot take the "medicine" of truth that is reality. Additionally, from a religious standpoint, Thile could be saying that those of this world are sick because they know not of the word of God, and since God's word is the truth, they can't handle it or "choke" it down. The specialist is referred to as someone who knows how to cure the "sickness" (those of whom have no faith) however, since the world is so corrupt and hopeless, he has no choice but to stay home, do nothing and "do as the Romans do" or continue conforming to the society of the time because "no one knows" the REAL truth(God's word).

At this point, the melody once again takes over, seeming ever more powerful the second time around, preparing the listener for the second verse.

"Where can a teacher go? Wherever she thinks people need the things she knows. Hey, those books you gave us look good on the shelves at home, and they'll burn warm in the fireplace teacher When In Rome."

Thile's voice is enhanced by Sara's tight harmony on this verse, a move that seems only perfect for the meaning...in my opinion. The song is nearing the emotional build, which just so happens to be the verse right after these words. The verse uses the symbol of a teacher (someone who knows more, can pass on knowledge/truth to others) to demonstrate the hopelessness of a society plagued by unbelievers. In said society, the teacher tries to reach out to those who need her knowledge or her truth, yet when she arrives at her destination, her teachings are received only as a nice gesture, rather than the revelations that her teachings truly bring. Instead, the people of the town/those that are being taught thank the teacher for her books, and ensure her that her truth will be used for something...burning in the fire. This symbolizes a conformist-style rejection of new, true ideals. Once again, the "when in Rome" saying is reitterated, as though to say "oh well, but thanks for trying".

"Grab a blanket sister, we'll make smoke signals, bring in some new blood, it feels like we're alone. Grab a blanket brother, so we don't catch cold from one another, I wonder if we're stuck in Rome."

This verse is the climax of the song. Sean joins Sara and Chris to put together a strong three-part harmony with a catchy backbeat and strong chord progression in the background. Lyrically, the song takes on a different perspective, as though the singer begins to realize that things surrounding them are changing, and it is uncomfortable (grab a blanket sister...). The speaker acknowledges change(new blood/truth/God's word) and notes that it feels like "we're alone" or losing their foundations/faith in their conformist thinking. Later, the speaker once again announces his concern, expressing that perhaps people of his conformist beliefs might poison one another (...so we don't catch cold from one another) with the idea that new truth might actually be THE truth. The blanket symbolizes a sheltered enviornment and/or censorship. The line that really brings power to the verse comes at the end, when the speaker acknowledges the fear that comes along with being stuck in a mold and being conformed into a false belief. (...stuck in Rome).

Immediately following, the aggressive melody enters again, even more powerful and emotive than ever. A change of rhythm brings a sense of surprise and interest into the last verse of the song.

"Where can a dead man go? A question with an answer only dead men know. But I'm gonna bet they never really feel at home if they spent a lifetime learning how to live in Rome."

When in Rome ends with a highly emotive and opinionated verse. The "dead man" inevitably ends up in one of two places, from a religious standpoint; heaven or hell. In an obvious statement, Thile says that only dead men know their true fate when it comes to the afterlife, but it is the last line that really expresses the point of the song. Those that spend their life conformed to the wrong ideals, or living by the standards of society(...learning how to live in Rome) as opposed to living by and accepting God's word and standards end up feeling uncomfortable when their souls are cast to hell(...they never really feel at home). With this, the band ends with a lengthy reiterration of the melody with smart variations and building tension. The song ends just as calmly as it began, with a simple strum of the mandolin and a strong bowing of the fiddle, a soun that, had the listener not just experienced the song before it, would sound as soft and "innocent" as a child's lullaby.

So there it is...my interpretation of "When in Rome." Glad to get that off my chest...Night.
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2005, 06:31 PM
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thebiglargeness thebiglargeness is offline
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*claps furiously*

1: wow
2: welcome to the family, enjoy your stay
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when you play guitar for long enough you reach the point you can no longer tune it by ear, then you begin to use a machine....i have now reached the point where i can't use the machine- Dave Matthews(while trying to tune his guitar during an acoustic gig)

and there's room for the forsaken if you're there on time, you'll be washed of all your sins and all of your crimes, if your down there by the train, down there where the train goes slow- johnny cash(down there by the train)
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  #3  
Old 08-09-2005, 07:36 PM
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Sneezy II Sneezy II is offline
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Bravo for you effort! You are NC people and that to me means you're a thinker. And you express that clearly with your take on "When in Rome". I think you are wrong. I believe Nickel Creek are thinkers. And "Doubting Thomas" lends real weight to many of the thoughts throughout this new recording. It is very political - in that Rev. Billy Graham sort of way.

I happen to think a really telling choice is the word "stuck". That word and the video images bring out different meanings of each verse. And it holds with their Christian ideals (caring for the sick, achieving wisdom and condeming the sins of war) to be an anti-war song. Example: The Christian Right is trying to ban science and books. I think Chris would find this troubling. Throwing knowledge on the fire is troubling, yet it is what is happening today. And we are "stuck" in Iraq. Similarly we are doing as our enemies do rather than Jesus' teaching of turning the other cheek. That is HUGE!

You said: "do nothing and "do as the Romans do" Yet it was Rome who were the first Imperialists and Rome was the seat of the Church - the Rock. Those two disparate powers emanating from the same place must have meaning in this song.

I posted a link to the original meaning of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" in the "When in Rome" thread. It's worth checking out.
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Old 08-09-2005, 07:55 PM
Rainingatsunset Rainingatsunset is offline
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I appreciate the affirmation, thebiglargeness.title=Smilie Your warm welcome makes me feel less cautious about posting on the forum.Thank you!
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Music and writing are two of my favorite things. And when someone can blend the two to create the phenomenon that is known as a song, it defines genius. Music brings forth an undefinable feeling...an emotion, I suppose. It takes that which is unexplainable and explains it. It turns black and white to color. Something such as this should be attainable, in the sense that I should be able to grasp it, hold onto it, and study it further. Yet, it floats above our heads, teasing us with it's incomprehensible nature. So, when one takes music, blends it with well crafted words, which we in the literary world call lyrics, and plays...the sound and feeling emoted stirs in me an incredible sense of joy, inspiration, and fufillment. I have not yet been able to produce a song, and perhaps I never will be able to, but I'll keep trying. I've written down some words, with a tune in my head...however, if I plan to meld the two together and create anything similar to the writers and musicians that inspire me...I'm going to have to work a lot harder.
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  #5  
Old 08-09-2005, 08:08 PM
Rainingatsunset Rainingatsunset is offline
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Sneezy,
I must say that I fully understand and see where you are coming from with your point of view. However, I based my interpretation on the song itself, from a poetic perspective, as opposed to the images the video presents. Obviously, videos change the overall tone of the song, as its images highly influence the viewers' emotions when it comes to the lyrics. The beauty of Thile's writing is that it leaves so much to the listeners imagination. He manages to integrate powerful imagery with subtle obscurity to create a song that is worth pondering and discussing. Personally, I avoid integrating politics when it comes to poetry and/or music (unless of course, the song is blatantly political) simply because I believe it takes away from the artistry of the music and strips it down to mere political propaganda. Thank you for your insight, and thank you for replying!
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Music and writing are two of my favorite things. And when someone can blend the two to create the phenomenon that is known as a song, it defines genius. Music brings forth an undefinable feeling...an emotion, I suppose. It takes that which is unexplainable and explains it. It turns black and white to color. Something such as this should be attainable, in the sense that I should be able to grasp it, hold onto it, and study it further. Yet, it floats above our heads, teasing us with it's incomprehensible nature. So, when one takes music, blends it with well crafted words, which we in the literary world call lyrics, and plays...the sound and feeling emoted stirs in me an incredible sense of joy, inspiration, and fufillment. I have not yet been able to produce a song, and perhaps I never will be able to, but I'll keep trying. I've written down some words, with a tune in my head...however, if I plan to meld the two together and create anything similar to the writers and musicians that inspire me...I'm going to have to work a lot harder.
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2005, 08:18 PM
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matt the fiddler matt the fiddler is offline
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Welcome to the boards..


man... last week.. my cell was with me on the coast.. no signal..

brought a whole new meaning to the phrase..
"when in ROAM"

i bet they just typoed the song booklet lyrics title=Smilie
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Old 08-09-2005, 10:41 PM
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somewherenorth somewherenorth is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sneezy II
Example: The Christian Right is trying to ban science and books.
um...say again????

Quote:
Originally posted by Sneezy II
Similarly we are doing as our enemies do rather than Jesus' teaching of turning the other cheek.
i must have added in that whole "rulers as ministers of God executing wrath on evil doers...bearing not the sword in vain" verse (romans 13:4 specifically, 1-3, 5 for context) in the official somewherenorth translation....

note - yes, this post is written very sarcastically and should not be taken as the opinion of the staff, management, or advertisers of nickelcreek.info....

*runs away and hides under the table*
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Old 08-09-2005, 10:42 PM
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somewherenorth somewherenorth is offline
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ps....you're funny, matt title=Big
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Old 08-09-2005, 11:21 PM
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Sneezy II Sneezy II is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by somewherenorth


um...say again????
Check this out: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Harry Potter is under attack by the Christian Right. As is Mark Twain's "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" and many more classic novels. These books have been taught in schools for decades upon decades. Yet now they are endangered.

The History Channel had a wonderful program on called "From Ape to Man" in which it identified the missing links. Excellent and fascinating look back through millions of years of evolution. God does work in mysterious ways. But it is science that can actually prove our history and hopefully protect us from ourselves in the future - i.e. global warming.

As for my other reference quoted, my take is that Jesus taught us not to make war, but peace. Yet we are presently "stuck in Rome" doing exactly that. And because of not abiding by his teachings we are killing innocents along with evil-doers.

None of this is in the song - thank God. But it is interesting because religion has wormed it's way into how we conduct ourselves through science and thought. I prefer to let those scientists and teachers be my guide in these matters.

I hope God can tend the soul.
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:55 AM
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somewherenorth somewherenorth is offline
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i'm on my way to work, so i can't do a proper full reply (ie i can't run that search right now), but i did have a couple brief comments...

first off, i'm not aquainted with anything called the "Christian Right"....is this a new organization (tongue in cheek!!)??? because i don't remember joining...

secondly, using the premise that 'teaching something for a long long time validates it', i wanted to let you all know that the earth??? it's actually flat...

(ps on that one...funny thing - the bible all along referred to the sphere that hangs in nothing, while science said the earth was flat....'magine that...)

and i do agree that Jesus taught that we are to live peaceful lives (as far as it lies with you, be at peace with all men, etc), but i also believe that he's speaking to people as individuals....the government has a different responsibility, hence the "ministers of God" reference....

as for me, i prefer to let a infinite, immutable God be my guide in all matters...

and i know He tends my soul... title=Smilie

cheers...
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:22 AM
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thebiglargeness thebiglargeness is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sneezy II
Harry Potter is under attack by the Christian Right. As is Mark Twain's "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" and many more classic novels.
lets not generalize here, i am a christian, and i am conservative, but i get a laugh out of some of the things some of my misguided or misinformed bretheren are trying to do
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Chris's favorite quotes of the month:

when you play guitar for long enough you reach the point you can no longer tune it by ear, then you begin to use a machine....i have now reached the point where i can't use the machine- Dave Matthews(while trying to tune his guitar during an acoustic gig)

and there's room for the forsaken if you're there on time, you'll be washed of all your sins and all of your crimes, if your down there by the train, down there where the train goes slow- johnny cash(down there by the train)
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:26 AM
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First of all, welcome to the board title=Smilie

Secondly... a point of curiosity on my part...


Why is it that so many of the Creeks songs end up being interpreted to be about God?

I understand that they DO have a bunch of songs that relate to faith, so, is that why?

Is it because they are Christians? (And would not choose to write a secular song?)

Or is it that as a Christian listener, do you tend to interpret everything in how it could relate to God?

Or some other reason I am completely missing? Do share title=Smilie

I hope my question doesn't somehow offend anyone... and I am certainly not meaning to belittle anyones interpretation... it just strikes me as so odd... that with so many of their songs, especially from the last 2 albums, NOT being overtly or explained as, religious... (or about faith & God) it seems to be the first thing so many posters assume they are writing about.

So I'm just wondering... why is that?
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Old 08-10-2005, 10:12 AM
chickzilla chickzilla is offline
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Adyn, I seem to remember you and I were stuck with those exact same questions alone together on the other side of another thread recently. title=Smilie and here we are again. I have the same questions as you do.
I think Christians (I know I did it for a very long time in my own life) want to stay so true to their beliefs and religious precepts, that we try very hard to find a religious meaning where there might not be one, so that we can fit into as many diverse places as possible. I mean, people have written "The Gospel According to Seinfeld" and other such books in an attempt to find as much Christian interpretations of pop-culture things as possible.
The fact that Sean, Sara and Chris are themselves Christian by their own admission, and some of their songs are overtly Christian, makes it easier I suppose. I won't say its a wrong thing to do, it really did help me through some tough times to think that way. It helped me connect with people I otherwise would have had nothing in common with.
But it is not something I would ever do now. My personal views on art and music and literature have changed. If something makes me feel good from the onset, I do not try to find a Christian meaning to justify it. If something makes me feel bad (even if it IS overtly Christian) I steer clear of it, period.
People have their different life filters, and I suppose one of Christianity is just as valid as one of any other personal conviction.
In my own opinion.

oh yeah, and welcome to the board rainingatsunset! title=Smilie way to start a good discussion!
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Old 08-10-2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
People have their different life filters, and I suppose one of Christianity is just as valid as one of any other personal conviction.
That's some interesting food for thought m'dear title=Wink Well said. And yes... it does go right back to the interpretation issue (hey I thought that was a very interesting disucssion title=Big )

I suppose it seems to me a bit like classifying the band as "country"... the tendency to classify them as a "Christian" band (and by that I don't mean the faith of the members, I mean the Christian Contemporary music category)

Both seem so constricting... and based on, if anything, their self titled release & performanaces as a child band. It's said well in the Paste article...

Quote:
But this change is also evident in the album’s lyrical content, which ventures into darker, more austere subject matter.... while other songs investigate shattered lives and relationships, infidelity, loneliness and spiritual failing.

“It evolved, you know,” says Sean. “We’re older now and more stuff has happened.”
Not to say... in ANY way... that faith & God are not legitimate themes for music... and still one that they do draw upon from time to time. I was more curious about the assumptions that are often made connecting nearly everything to religion.

Thanks for your thoughts there, good points, all title=Smilie
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Old 08-10-2005, 01:19 PM
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I was gonna say something, but somewherenorth and others have addressed it already.

Labeling the morons who are trying to get different things banned as the "Christian Right" is just plain ign'ant. It's a label liberal media likes to use because 1 - they hate conservatives, 2 - they don't believe in God, and 3 - they think anyone who DOES believe in God, especially a conservative, is beneath them on the natural order of things. So, being able to lump them all together when a few pathetic morons do something stupid allows them to depict all conservative Christians in a negative manner, which brings glee to the heart of Katie Kouric (sp?) and the like.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:15 PM
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I don't know about that. When I use the term "religious right", I'm usually trying to separate it from the "religious left". They're both real enough phenomena. It doesn't make a lot of sense to try to pretend that they don't exist.

The religious left tends to do things like invite openly gay men to become ministers or priests. The religious right tends to do things like try to convince you that evolution has no scientific basis. This world has plenty of each.

As far as I can tell, Nickel Creek fall into neither of these two extreme camps.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:23 PM
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Ok. So being a Christian and a conservative, I feel compelled to jump into this thread.
I first would like to start off with saying that this is just my interpretation of things and my hopes in answering some of the questions from Adyn and chickzilla.

I agree with LCS in that labeling all Christians a certain way is very ignorant and close minded, as well as labeling all Democrats or Republicans a certain way is also the same.
What makes each person different is their personality. They may be a Christian, but don't listen to Christian music or go to church 3 times a week, but they still love Jesus as much as the next guy. The church is those who are Believers and not some building or place of worship. Our Body is the church (temple of the Holy Spirit) They may love God and have more integrity than the pastor in their own church. This is something I've just come to realize recently because I've just come out of a recent church split where the church I was going to was deceptively manipulative and almost cultish in nature. This made me very upset, let down, and very hurt, but I continue to press on with Jesus. (I can really relate to the song, This Side, very much now.)

On the other side of the coin, for example, there are some Christians who only believe that there is one authoritative version of the Scriptures, the King James Version. I used to be one of those people. Now, I actually read a contemporary version of the Bible that is interpreted directly from the Greek and the Hebrew into modern day language, the Message Bible and I love it.

question 1

"Why is it that so many of the Creeks songs end up being interpreted to be about God?"

I think the reason some people relate these songs to be about Faith, God, Christianity is because NC is outspoken about their Christianity, or maybe not as vocal about it now as they once were. This being said, its easy to recognize the motivation or the be aware of the heart/inspiration behind the lyrics. I don't think that they would never write a secular(non-Christian if you will) song. They have proved with just about every CD they release.
Ie .. Spit on a Stranger, House Carpenter, Sweet Afton, Out of the Woods, Helena, Somebody More Like You... just to name a few.

question 2

"Or is it that as a Christian listener, do you tend to interpret everything in how it could relate to God?"

I kind of answered this question at the end of my second paragraph. I think that at certain times in your life God will reveal Himself through a song or a word of encouragement or a speech or sermon. As a Christian listener I don't interpret "everything" that I listen to be from God or have a hidden meaning or message. I think when you listen to a Christian artist, its pretty much expected that the music is going to be somewhat Christian in nature. Artists who are Christian, sometimes you can pick up on a song that may have had a Christian influence in it and sometimes you don't. I also want to point out that I don't just listen to Christian music, or Christian artists. I enjoy and can appreciate terrific songwriting, singing etc, but also realize that its not always going to be Christian.

I know its been said before, but I think its great, as pointed out earlier, that NC's songs can have different meanings to each person, no matter what their background. We may not all agree on the same things, but I think we can all appreciate each other and our love for this amazing group!!!

I'll get off my soapbox now. title=[computerhide]
Sorry if I was a little preachy, just trying to answer some questions.
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:59 PM
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Jonraz...

Also interesting food for thought title=Smilie Sounds like you have experienced some trying times even among your own church, that's wonderful to hear your own faith has not been shaken due to that... goodness knows how easy it is to become cynical title=Wink

I can see your point of view, certainly. The one thing I have trouble with... and I think it's the essence of why I was asking in the first place... is this statement you made:

Quote:
I think when you listen to a Christian artist, its pretty much expected that the music is going to be somewhat Christian in nature
See, that I don't get. (or buy haha) As you mentioned they have written more songs than not (at least in the past 4 years) which are not about being a Christian. It's when people start to reeeeach in nearly every song for the Christian meaning, (or automatically assume anything even remotely cryptic is faith related) that I kinda go huh? title=thinking

title=[lolol]

I hadn't been thinking so much on the personal interpretation aspect as much as the many many (often first time, interestingly enough) posts assuming that everything has a religious meaning... if it's even remotely possible to make that stretch. I think you'd have a tough time with She Can't Complain LOL for example, unless I suppose you are using the morality issue... but I am talking more about the literal "this says this about God, about Jesus in this, and..." That sort of thing.

Thanks for being a good sport and taking the time to reply. I'm pretty open minded faith wise & find other peoples convictions and "rose tinted glasses" interesting to try and understand title=Smilie

(And I ain't touchin the "religious right" topic with a ten foot pole title=got that's a subject for a whoooole nother message board and one I'd rather stay out of title=[lolol] )
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:37 PM
flutegrl71 flutegrl71 is offline
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All I want to ask is - why does the song have to be either/or?

I personally don't see the song as a political commentary because, as someone else mentioned, that image seems to be from the video interpretation. Just listening to the song I couldn't gather a solely political interpretation. Sneezy, you present a good case that I had not considered before. But I don't think rainingatsunset is "wrong" because of a different - but seemingly valid - interpretation.

One might also take from the song the idea that we must think for ourselves. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" is the complete phrase (we all know this by now)...do something without thinking, just follow the crowd. The old man stays at home because he's already been told nothing's going to work. A teacher's books would allow us to grow and think for ourselves, therefore we should (sardonically) just burn them. A dead man--well, how can he follow anyone? No one really knows what comes next...so...what now? Thematic summary might be - We have to remember that in the end, we have to make our own choices to live and not let someone make it for us.

So, I think we've found 3 interpretations of one song that have equal cases. I just balk a little when someone provides a lengthy personal interpretation and the first response is "I think you are wrong." So, I just pose the question, does the song have to be either/or?
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:13 PM
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cheers for everyone on this discussion...

one thing i've grown to appreciate about this board is that, in my experience at least, everybody manages to discuss rather volatile subjects w/out ending up in a catfight... so yay for the board!!! title=Smilie

i also wanted to touch on your q's heather...

so....(speaking from the worldview of a evangelical christian)...i must admit i don't get as deep into song interpretation as some folks here (and kudos to them for their depth)....off the top of my head, the only songs that really stuck out to me as having overtly Christian "tones/messages" was the hand song...i got "non-overt tones" on reasons why and, from 26 miles, take it away....the first one, i must say, is rather obvious... title=Smilie reasons why hit a chord because i've heard the expression "if God feels like He's far away, who moved???", many times...take it away reminds me of romans 7, among other things...the concept of doing what you don't want to do, and not doing what you want to do, as well as the whole "lose everything here in this grave"....the imagery was pretty strong to me....other than that, i pretty much just take the words at their normal value...i don't usually see much built up behind them, but that might be due to laziness more then anything else...come to think of it, i usually don't even look at the lyrics, so half the time i'm probably totally wrong as to what i think the song is about because i have half the words wrong... title=EEK!

speaking of laziness, i will eventually run that search...nine hour shifts are tiring, even if you are only making coffee....(it doesn't help if the dm is checking the store either - but don't tell them i said that.... title=Wink)
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Old 08-11-2005, 07:23 AM
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I agree. I like to analyze songs up to a point, but after awhile, my head starts to spin and I want to pull my hair out. I hate things without a definite answer!
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My View on Life:

I thought it was gonna be like in the movies -- you know, inspirational music, a montage: me sharpening my pencil, me reading, writing, falling asleep on a big pile of books with my glasses all crooked, 'cause in my montage, I have glasses. But real life is slow, and it's starting to hurt my occipital lobe.--Buffy Summers
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Old 08-11-2005, 05:44 PM
Rainingatsunset Rainingatsunset is offline
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I never thought my interpretation would allow for such intriguing conversation...title=Smilie You're quite the intellectual group. (A trait not common among many other message boards) Congratulations.
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Music and writing are two of my favorite things. And when someone can blend the two to create the phenomenon that is known as a song, it defines genius. Music brings forth an undefinable feeling...an emotion, I suppose. It takes that which is unexplainable and explains it. It turns black and white to color. Something such as this should be attainable, in the sense that I should be able to grasp it, hold onto it, and study it further. Yet, it floats above our heads, teasing us with it's incomprehensible nature. So, when one takes music, blends it with well crafted words, which we in the literary world call lyrics, and plays...the sound and feeling emoted stirs in me an incredible sense of joy, inspiration, and fufillment. I have not yet been able to produce a song, and perhaps I never will be able to, but I'll keep trying. I've written down some words, with a tune in my head...however, if I plan to meld the two together and create anything similar to the writers and musicians that inspire me...I'm going to have to work a lot harder.
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Old 08-12-2005, 03:54 AM
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I amend my saying that Rainingatsunset was "wrong". It's my debating style. Sorry. It's just different from mine. And I apolgogize to anybody who was offended by my read of the Christian extremists on the Right. They terrifty me as they do want to control me and my body since I'm on the Left.

Quote:
I agree with LCS in that labeling all Christians a certain way is very ignorant and close minded, as well as labeling all Democrats or Republicans a certain way is also the same.
But you see I am a Christian. "all Christians?" Where does that come from? We need to know there is a huge effort to control the message and claim the powerful Christian Right is under attack by Liberals. Quite the opposite is true. Maybe I have an ear here so let me reassure you that the Christian Left wants to keep the separation of Church and State so we can all honor our Maker as our own heart tells us to.

And there are extremists (which I call the Christian Right - because that is the where ultra-Conservatives are) who want to ban Harry Potter and Huckleberry Finn and make me ashamed to be a Christian. You either acknowledge that or you are ignoring that fact. I provided an entire catalogue of links above for anyone who is interested in reading about what is happening.

It's my interpretation of any song talking about burning books that there are people intent on doing so. And t it won't be Liberals burning books. It will be people like Pat Robertson (who prays for Supreme Court Justices to die- wouldn't you call that "extreme"?), John Dobson, and others to the far right who preach that witchcraft or wizardry, or anything that isn't Christian should be banned from schools. It's just good to know the truth.

I happen to think there is too much violence in our videos and movies. And too much sex as well. It's just a little part of why I love Nickel Creek. They are spiritual and intellectual and vastly superior musically to most pop musicians out there. What they choose to sing about is interesting to ponder and debate.

But I acknowledge there will always be Creeksters who think nearly every song is about walking with Jesus. I just don't agree with them. But can't we get along without calling someone ignorant? It's a better place to start, don't you think?
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:37 AM
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i'm just curious (again - on my way to work so w/out much time!!!) - when you say "it's just good to know the truth" in connection w/banning anything that isn't Christian from schools, what do you mean??? it's a little vauge, so i can't quite tell where you're going...

thanks! title=Smilie
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:49 AM
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sorry for two posts in a row...i just ran the search and clicked on four of the links on the first page....so far the only thing of interest i saw was that S Africa is possibly going to ban a book by someone i've met... title=Smilie peter hammond spoke at a two week leadership session i went to, told some facinating stories about all the times he's come close to death during his time smuggling bibles into the sudan...funny how it's not "The Christian Right" that's out to ban this book he's coauthored, but it's "The Gay and Lesbian Equality Project"....
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Old 08-12-2005, 10:14 AM
jonraz jonraz is offline
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Quote:
I think when you listen to a Christian artist, its pretty much expected that the music is going to be somewhat Christian in nature
What I meant by that was an artist who is specifically signed under a Christian Music label (Sparrow Records, Rocketown Records, Essential Records, Word Records) then it is expected that the lyrical content of the music is going to be from a Christian standard.
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Old 08-12-2005, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonraz


What I meant by that was an artist who is specifically signed under a Christian Music label (Sparrow Records, Rocketown Records, Essential Records, Word Records) then it is expected that the lyrical content of the music is going to be from a Christian standard.
Ooooooooooh. title=[lolol] YES. I can see that makes complete sense. Sorry... I thought you were referring to any artist who is known to be Christian. Gotcha title=Wink

We have a Christian contemporary station around here and from what I hear flipping through that station, you're right on hehe. Though mostly that music seems pretty dang overt LOL. Though, I don't listen enough to be a real judge... it just seems like what they choose to play have very, very obvious lyrics... singing to "Him" and Jesus ect. (Rather than the more subtle approach NC tends to take on their faith-based songs)

I know that I have heard of Christian music/book stores selling at least the first ST album... I wonder if that has anything to do with the classification assumption, would make sense.

Thanks for the clarification title=Smilie
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:09 AM
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Sure thing!! I thought that would definitely clarify what I was saying. Have a good one!! title=Big
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2005, 01:56 PM
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I suggest people investigate for themselves if they doubt that there is an effort to ban books right now. The Christian Right is clearly not a block. There are degrees of extremism among Fundamentalists. Not all Conservatives are out to ban books, but I doubt that they would do anything to prevent them being banned if they didn't know about it.

So please, if you are a Conservative Christian and you don't like the idea of censorsip and book banning, please look into this yourself.

I suggest doing a search on Book Banning and go to several sources. That's why knowing the truth is important and not just believing what you are told - be it by me or your own church.

Out of curiosity. are there any Conservatives who acknowledge book banning?
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:24 PM
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just to clarify (not that you were pointing to me title=Smilie), i didn't say book banning doesn't happen (i'm assuming that's what you mean by "acknowledge"??? - correct me if that's wrong)....my only point was out of the four links in the search you provided that i clicked on, i didn't find anything of interest (minus the hammond article)...

i would have to disagree specifically with one thing you said, sneezy ii - "so we can all honor our Maker as our own heart tells us to"... you see, i know that my "heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. who can know it???" (jer. 17:9) i don't want to be guided by my heart, but by what has been revealed in written and Incarnated form...my heart could tell me that the best way i could honor my Maker would be by taking out of your house everything i deemed offensive and burning it on your lawn (just in case anyway's concerned, i have no inclination to do the above!!! title=Smilie - i'm just trying to make a point!!!)!!!! but should i be guided by my heart and my emotions, or by God's revealed Word???

i do agree with what you said above, though maybe with a slightly different definition of terms - "knowing the truth is important and not just believing what you are told"....the key of course is what the measure of truth is...which i believe, as i'm sure you've guessed by now (title=Big), is the Bible....

cheers
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sneezy II

Out of curiosity. are there any Conservatives who acknowledge book banning?
Just to satisfy your curiosity, me. My whole family is made up of conservative Christians and we all know about book banning. Since we are not Fundamentalists, this makes us cry a little (me, especially, the literature fanatic). My community at home is also primarily made up of conservative Christians and in one of my classes senior year, we had a several class sessions discussing book banning and its nationwide epidemic (there was not a student in the class, by the way, who did not find at least one book on the list of "commonly banned books" appalling). So, I wouldn't lose hope and think that all Christian Rights are against any book that isn't the Bible. Quite the contrary. It's just that the extremists are obviously going to be the ones that make the most fuss, and therefore will get the most attention.

Now I concede that just because we acknowledge it does not mean we're going to join rallys. But yes, I acknowledge it; no, I don't approve of it; and yes, I would write a letter to the school board if they were to ban an unobjectional book at my school. As far as donating money or joining a rally of some kind, I'm just more devoted to other causes.

meanwhile, um....did I say welcome to the board, rainingatsunset? *quickly hides from the off-topic police*title=[computerhide]
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  #32  
Old 08-12-2005, 07:27 PM
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Rainingatsunset look what you did ... title=Stick

JK! It seems to be a custom of this board to argue .. cool huh? Ok so its not that bad ... and I didn't read any of those post entirely *ducks* I just noticed there was a bit of a disagreement ... not your fault though ... WELCOME TO DA BOARD

*goes & hides under table with water gun preparing to soak anyone threatening a spork fight*

BRING IT!
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:54 PM
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flutegrl71. Thanks so much for your response and input. I truly appreciate it. I hope there won't come a time when it becomes necessary to stand up to extremists at home. But if the time comes I hope you and your family will speak out and write whomever you can. I think this is a terrbily important issue. And I'm grateful to Nickel Creek for putting it in their song.

somewherenorth: I'm happy to live in America - land of freedom and the right to one's own beliefs. There might be a time to debate you, but I would rather we agree to disagree.
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Old 08-13-2005, 09:55 AM
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why certainly sneezy ii - i am happy to do the same... title=Smilie
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  #35  
Old 08-13-2005, 11:38 PM
Stevendean Stevendean is offline
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Very nice discussion going on. I like it very much. However, it begs the question....then what??
I don't deny that the members of Nickle Creek profess belief in Jesus christ or that they write songs that might make people think about scripture, or even cause people to compare their own personal "walk" with the Lord to the lyrics that they have heard. But where does it go from there??
Shouldn't it follow that if we lead someone into thinking or reflecting on the things of God that we also supply them with answers to their wonderings??

The problem I see in this is this: Many secular artists can sing about positive things. Does this mean that they are Christian?? can non-christian people be moral enough that they appear to be Christian without really being one??

Let us not forget that Jesus says that on that day many will say, "Lord, Lord", and He will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

I will enjoy their music and their talents, but without knowing them for myself, I cannot judge their hearts in matters of faithfulness in walking with God.

Heres to hoping that noone is offended by what I have typed.
Now I go to read more lyrics, lyrics that are in question.

Steven
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Old 08-13-2005, 11:42 PM
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This is so much more of a rational conversation about religion than we had going on in here when I was Sneezy I about 3 years ago.

I really appreciate that from Creeksters. title=Smilie
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stevendean
can non-christian people be moral enough that they appear to be Christian without really being one??
I reallly hope you're not implying that the only people "moral enough" are Christian????

There is a universal basis to morality... kindess, tolerence, respect for others persons & property... core values that are shared across MANY faiths... Christian's certainly haven't "cornered the market" on morality.

The concept that only Christians are moral seems like such an bizzare statement... (which is why I want to clarify I am not misunderstanding you) I have known many, many Christian who "talk the talk" without "walking the walk" and those people, I have no respect for. Give me an non-Christian with kindness, love, and respect in their dealing with the world over a hateful, arrogent Christian any day.

And NO I am not saying Christians are hateful or arrogent, before anyone flips out on me title=Wink But I have met some who are, and them being "Christian" seems a mockery to me & renders the term rather pointless.
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Old 08-14-2005, 04:53 PM
Stevendean Stevendean is offline
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Thanks for asking, but that is not at all what I am saying. Christians are called to a higher standard than a world that rejects Jesus as God. An unbeliever still does things that seem "good" and "moral", and by the normal standards in which we judge things, they are good and moral.

However, as a christian, we recognize that our morality does not stream forth from ourselves. It is not that "I" have done good things, or that "I" have made good decisions. It is because of Christ Jesus living in and through me that I can make these decisions (not that failure never occurs).

I suppose that my point is this, MOST non-believers will not sing about Jesus or the things of God on a regular basis. Why would they??
Many of the NC songs that people claim make them appear to be a Christian band are very vague. I could picture many secular good people singing the HAND SONG, but because it is NC it seems to give credibility to their Christian status.

Recently, Chris said Bulls*** in an interview. Should that cast doubt upon his personal Christian status??? Not in my view, but I am sure there are many that frown a bit to much upon this.

So, in closing: sorry if I came across as a arrogant Christian. I assure you, I am far from arrogant and I question my own behavior far to often.

thanks,

Steven (still trying to make sense of it all)
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:42 PM
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I suppose that my point is this, MOST non-believers will not sing about Jesus or the things of God on a regular basis. Why would they??
Yes, I'd agree that makes total sense. I would only disagree that Christian = Moral and vice versa.

And no, no, no... LOL I wasn't implying at all that you sounded arrogant... only that I have come across those types of people who call themselves Christian while behaving anything but. I have some Muslim and Jewish friends, and even athiests, whom I would consider extremely moral and yes, GOOD people.

Hey, whatever works for you, to help you be the best person you can be, to find love, kindness, and generosity in your heart and in your actions... I am all for it title=Smilie
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Old 08-15-2005, 09:59 AM
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I have known many, many Christian who "talk the talk" without "walking the walk" and those people, I have no respect for.
Quote:
But I have met some who are, and them being "Christian" seems a mockery to me & renders the term rather pointless.
I know exactly what you mean about this Adyn. As I wrote in my earlier post, about coming out of a church split, I can definitely see this. I have people who don't want to speak to me because I left something that I basically grew up in. I know exactly what you mean about Christians not walking the walk. In my case its the Christians treating other people with more respect than their own brothers and sisters in Christ. Its really sad to me because one day we will all be in Heaven together and there will be absolutely no division.

Steven,

Regarding the Creek and their Christianity. I know the first time that I met them , back in 2001, (I don't know if they still do this or not), each of them signed my CD with a Jesus fish and I asked them if they were Christians and I think it was Chris who said that all 3 of them are. I believe that they still are and will continue to pray for them no matter where they are at in their walk with Him. I don't think any person can judge either what is in another's heart. (not that you are at all, but just as a general statement).

By the way, welcome to rainingatsunset. I realized in my last post I forgot to say welcome.

I love this topic by the way and seeing everyone's input on it.
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